HoCoSo CONVERSATION
HoCoSo CONVERSATION
A case study: How does agile operations inspire and create “purpose” for employees in the hospitality industry? Part 2
Jonathan Humphries, your host, is in conversation with Jochen Renz. Given the challenges in the hospitality industry around recruitment, retainment, compensation and operating efficiencies, following two years of pandemic related challenges, in this podcast, we showcase a hotel which is operating in an agile way. This discussion is a case study on how it is possible to thing, lead, manage and respond in a post-covid world with constant uncertainty.
How can we better engage our employees in operational effectiveness and deliver a higher quality customer experience?
When this podcast was recorded, Jochen Renz was yet Multi Property Regional Manager for SV Group in the Zurich Area, including the 252-room Renaissance Zurich Tower, on which this case study is based. After this recording was made, Jochen has taken on a new position as AI Vice President Operations Switzerland & Southern Germany at Accor.
Related episodes:
“Leading Dynamically – The four principles of Leadership PART 1” – with Patrick Ghielmetti
Join us for this enlightening conversation! Follow our journey and our discussion with some of the most renowned and influential people of our time.
Subscribe to our channel, under HoCoSo CONVERSATION, on:
Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Castro, Stitcher, Podcast addict, Podchaser, Deezer, Listen notes, Tune In, iHeart Radio, and many more...
Follow us on Instagram: @hocosoconversation and Linkedin: HoCoSo Conversation
Jonathan [00:00:04] I am your host, Jonathan Humphreys. Welcome to the HoCoSo Conversation Part two. These are unfiltered conversations with people sharing their life journeys and learnings to help us become better versions of ourselves. I'd like to kind of draw on a couple of things here. One is and I'd like to ask you how this works. The approach of being agile is around transparency, about being totally transparent in terms of the business, what's going on. So you've highlighted from the customer side, but you've also got a lot of initiatives that are you're working on, your management team is working on. Maybe there are corporate initiatives that need to be implemented. There are KPIs that need to be achieved. So how do you create this transparency within the organization? Because historically, going back to your old structure, not your old structure, the the hospitality industries, old structure is very hierarchical, very role driven, very clearly divided roles and responsibilities. But there was also knowledge is power. This whole approach that I know more about my specialized area than you, and therefore I have the power and you don't. And therefore it created the silos within the organization. It created silos within the operations, which you could argue creates a very functioning operational machine. Right. It also a lot of this hierarchical division of labor. Right. If you go back to Adam Smith's was actually and at going forward, it was also about production, it was about automization, of manufacturing. It was all about making things as ambition as possible, giving people the very smallest tasks and creating process. Okay, now if we are to continue doing that in the hospitality space, we just need so many employees that it just makes it impossible. And once again, people don't feel part of something bigger. And as human beings, we are so much more capable and taking on the smallest tasks. So just going back to this transparency, how do you create that transparency within the organization so that everyone understands the impact that they are having on the overall organization rather than just that that micro area?
Jochen [00:02:29] But we use there a very typical agile system, which is so we have created a miro board because what we have done, what we have experienced, we have a lot of data which is coming from from our guests, how they see us. We had then at that point a lot of internal data from our reports which is mentioning which we have commented. So it's a lot of unstructured data which was around. And and then we started okay with both on that science to get a really if we have a 360 different degree picture. We started on a miro board. We started just with an improvement. What we called that was sticky notes, which everyone could put the problems we have as a sticky note into that point. And then we started the, let's say, a meeting structure where we involve the team also and everyone is invited on that improvement wall meetings. Where are you going to structure the issues we have for the potential of improvement? We have in a way where you can say, okay, you can tackle it like that one. And then we have a huge wall with a lot of problems, but everyone can see it and everyone can make us aware on that point at a later stage. We have then used, we have created for each and every department. We have created a kanban board. That means. So that's a structured way if you can see, okay, from the from the improvement wall, we take this data and we are going to improve that one. We are going to roll out into the internal system and we have designated, let's say one was responsible problem or improvement we had was the check response time, which we are using on which we always have. It been about 12 to 30 minutes and the target is 4 minutes. So check with us on the Marriott app. You need to have internet so within four months. So we was not speed enough. So we have looked into our team who has the resources and capabilities, who can use that task to make it better. And we gave him resources for that. And it was and he used the resources to make it up. You give him a laptop at home and you can feel how proud you are. If you are 21, you're getting the first time a laptop at home from a company. You are more than happy to do that and this miro and all the Kanban boards is purely completely visible for each and everyone. If you have an improvement, you can put it on the improvement wall and you can be sure the teams so and I have each team, let's say the front desk team, the kitchen team is responsible for his own of on board. You can see at what stage what they are doing, at what time. And then we have from the know also things we cannot change by the team itself. Let's say that we need to have an innovation. Wi-Fi needs to be faster. You need to do communication with our reservation department in Ireland, etc., etc. Our needs to be improved. That's all things which you either have not the know how or the competencies or the financial resources. We have decided that there is another ideation improvement wall which is on a higher level, which other stakeholders needs to be to bring that task, also be interactive. So we have created an environment. Where you can see at all time, at all levels the task we are currently working on and also where you can see how many resources we give to make the task done.
Jonathan [00:05:34] Let me summarize this a little bit. What I like about this approach is that everyone is tasked with problem solving. Yeah, start with the culture is around. Look, we're solving problems.
Jochen [00:05:47] That's right.
Jonathan [00:05:48] Someone once said to me, actually, if you're not solving problems, then you don't really have a job to do. So you should probably go away and do something else, because actually that's what we're doing with solving problems always. And actually, human beings are designed to solve problems. So I think the first thing is being open, which is what you're doing in terms of saying, look, these are all the problems that need to be solved. These have been raised by our colleagues and they've been raised by the guests. But let's solve them as fast as possible and let's prioritize them into essentially, let's say, two buckets or maybe three buckets. The majority of those you guys, the team you can solve by yourself, come up with your initiatives, solve them, get them done, communicate how you're doing them, give us feedback, right? That's right. And that's probably, I would imagine, what, 60, 70% of the problems there. Then you've got another tier, which is it requires some kind of decision making. It requires maybe some investment. It requires an allocation of resources. It requires something in addition that can't be solved within the team environment. And I guess that's where your management and leadership come in, in terms, okay, I'm going to prioritize this. I'm going to make sure that these things get done. And then there's probably a third tier which is, okay, this has to get some kind of approval outside of this particular organization. Maybe I need to go to corporate or I need to get support for. And then that's a separate project, which I guess you would manage. But at all times the team sees what tier those are in and who's taking on responsibility for those. And obviously those those 60, 70%, maybe even higher that the team can solve, they also volunteer to solve for those. Or they just go in and say, I can do that. And it's done so that you've got this kind of dynamic process, if I'm just understanding. Correct. Is that.
Jochen [00:07:36] Perfect? That's absolutely. Absolutely right. And also from it coming from top down, let's say initiatives like we're having a new HR tool, X-Y-Z, the team can at every time see how flows it into our resources, who is going to assign additional tasks. So that's very transparent and you're summarizing it perfectly. Thank you.
Jonathan [00:07:54] So I think the other thing I would like to kind of highlight here is the taking of initiative. So what makes this work, this agile approach, is that everybody uses their initiative. How do you encourage people to take their initiative without them feeling that they're going to be, let's say, punished or criticized for taking their initiative? Because that's a delicate balance, right? You want people to take their initiative, but at the same time, you want them to learn. Maybe the decision wasn't great. Right. You want them to learn? You want to get better in terms of that decision making process. So how do you make sure that they continue to take initiative? But at the same time get feedback that maybe that decision wasn't the best possible decision at that particular time so that they can improve. Because if we automatically assume that they're always going to make the best possible decisions given that time frame, that means we've got no room for improvement. Right? So that's unrealistic. So I'm just wondering how you create that feedback loop or is that something you're still working on? Just so that I can understand the initiative taking I think is key to this. Yeah. Know, I see something that needs doing. I'm going to do it. Or I see a problem that's going to be solved. I'm going to do it. Or I know somebody who's going to do it. I'm going to communicate with them fast so that they can get it done with me or by themselves. So and that's that whole team aspect. So maybe just explore that a little bit in terms of initiative taking, because I think that creates a positive dynamic in the organization.
Jochen [00:09:30] Absolutely. We have divided those initiatives into two different things. We have the first initiatives we are looking for, let's say, how do I do? How do they do decisions? X, Y, Z is we look into the daily operation and we working there. We're working. there not with feedback. We working there one with a feed forward that see we're looking specifically how did they react in that week, what was the have done decisions and how we can bring them to a next level for the decisions they make in the future. For example, a guest was complaining about an ice cube because he wanted to have a round and we delivered the one with curves. And and our associate said, okay, we see that it's not your wish. I invite you for a complimentary overnight. So let's say it was the initiative we take initiative which is good. Was it the right one? Maybe we can do something. We ask the team to each and every one to see how they feel. We asked them to have with each and everyone a feed forward discussion once a week. What have you decided this week? How did you feel on that point? What you would do in a better one? I experienced this very well, and if you can focus more on that because this is a you have a resources and debt, one which you can do very good and maybe also a bit better than other people because you're having the capabilities from your own. So teach them to the other ones because you have brought this very well into your organization. And then people can learn from their resources and they can always we always talk about how we can change this for the future. I think that's a very important initiative on that point. The second initiative point, which is, is we look we have project task where we are looking very much into the people who fit that. It's very rare in the organization at that we did that for example that the head of department. The schedule because we have people in the team who are very good in organization and we should we give them the task. And it's not means that the power is at the head of it. It's maybe it can be a supervisor or an agent. If he has an organizational talent, he can do that. And then we look for initiative. We look very specific. What is the talent he has. And what can we give them? And then it does not feel like a pain. It feels more like you understand who I am as a person, as a human being, and you're driving me into that that I can can contribute positively to the organization. And of course, then on like like everyone, if someone is doing how people ask for was it good, was it not good? And that's how we need to coach them or to to bring them into a world said, yes, that was good or to it a little bit like that way because then you are almost there and I think then we can always balance them into a right way.
Jonathan [00:12:09] Okay. I also, you know, that example of the ice cube and then the the room being given for free. Obviously, that's massive overcompensation. Right. And yet at the same time, you could kill kind of the initiative taking by being overly critical of that to that particular employee and say, look. But the learning here is about, I guess, within the entire team. Look, it's about taking initiative, but the initiative has to be appropriate to the situation. Yeah, right. And then you've got to learn how to manage your response to that situation appropriately. So just specifically on that, how did that feedback get given? Because obviously, you also need to focus on the bottom line. It be easy for the team just to kind of overcompensate to the guests. Right. And then obviously they go, wow, this is great. If I complain, I'm going to get all these freebies. Right? That's not the culture that you want. Yeah. So how did you manage that or how do you manage this particular situation of them not just overcompensating, taking low risk and just kind of frivolously kind of just giving over-the-top solutions? Because you you have to manage that very carefully as a leader.
Jochen [00:13:19] Absolutely. What I do is also the first of all, what you need to do is if you have a negative feedback, I want to know that. I want to know that and I want to know how you respond to that, because it's not that I want to control you on that one because it's it's I want that we can learn from the situation. On that being, was it a 1 time event? Was it a repeating event? And if it's a repeating in, how can respond in that one? I think if the team is very much aware. So if you are interested in situations like that because you want to learn from that. And the second situation is to thatt critical. We always look if it's a free room, let's say like a is it a long term risk for a hotel? Not in a one time situation, in a frequent situation, as as you mentioned. Absolutely right. It can affect that. The profit and loss statement and we want to avoid that. So I think to answer that questions. Right, this is getting being interested in the issues of the team and make them what are you waiting to respond on on the way and trust also coming back on the trust to have a common sense of seeing a situation in a right way. Yeah.
Jonathan [00:14:22] Okay. So they really need to kind of get that feedback. And I my interpretation of this is the leadership style is much more of a coach in this particular agile set up. Would that be the right interpretation of how this can work, this agile environment? You know, if we look at kind of, let's say sports teams, right, you have the coach and you have the players. So would you say that the leadership style that you're adopting is is more akin to kind of a coach definitely role rather than a directive Hierarchical historical role?
Jochen [00:14:53], yeah. Especially when you're operating two hotels, you need to learn at the very beginning. I can't be there at all time. You know, I'm at the one hotel or at the other. So any hierarchical situation which is clearly structured on a daily operation with decisions which needs to if I'm the only one who can decide if we do our compensation, I need to be there at both hotels at all time. So the first understanding is that that's not possible. Then I need to be automatically a coach standing next to them and engaging them to do that role. And when you see them, they get in confidence on that point and they are very good solution driven. Then you know you are on the right path. Yeah.
Jonathan [00:15:29] I think so. And the last thing is new skills and new initiatives. I know that one of the the benefits that you've seen come through this agile process is that individuals have shown new skills they didn't communicate before and that they've had an impact on the organization in different ways. I think we're going back to purpose and how people feel much more valued at work and how they can contribute much more. We all want to do that right in our work environment. At the same time, we don't want to be feeling like it's it's a burden that we're kind of like we have to do all this other stuff and it's outside of a role not going to get compensated. But I think for us to tap into our talents and maybe hidden talents is one of the things you've been able to do very successfully within within the team.
Jochen [00:16:20] Yeah, I think that to make that successful, you need to know who can do what and what is his talent. And, and I asked the team, for example, in October, what are your hidden talents? Just make an open conversation on that, points to it to make sure maybe there is something all right, which I don't know about the person, about their their interest, etc.. And a week later, I got the video from Martin Frost agent, which was stunning. It was a it's a it feels like it was from a marketing agency, a fully done courtyard video, which was engaging, which was nice to listen to. Oh, how do you do that? And he mentioned I just like to do things like that. And then we started to think, oh, that's what an asset we have within our own in our company. MARTIN Today, he has a half day, which is per week, which he is doing nice things. Our last this Christmas invitation for the Christmas market we have next week. He was done by him. He has done our new birthday celebrations video which you can do customized to our son for our our new loyal guests, where we want to bring some video instead of some fruits in there in the room, some personalized video. He's working on that. So we have found a talent which we had already in the Environment and he is. So we can't stop him healthy. So so we're looking onto that, which is great and we just need to to allow him to do that.
Jonathan [00:17:39] So this initiative, Agile initiative and the whole approach and philosophy has been recognized by the senior management there. So what's next?
Jochen [00:17:49] So I'm I'm very proud to be part of the The New Way We Work team, which is a part of the SVgroup. And I'm, I'm, they're sitting there into the team and we're looking at how we can be, let's say, in the hospitality industry or how we can shift your hospitality into the future in a resilient way that the people are staying with this very, very nice branch. We are, Rush we are working for and how we can make it as as much as attractive as possible to get especially that talent into into that point. And that's a very, very exciting journey we are doing there. I think the benefit of Corona is allowing to think into that directions and I think we can find so much great examples and so much so that we can come into the future with the hospitality industry. Wonderful.
Jonathan [00:18:34] Well, I wish you all the best with this new approach and initiative. And I know that obviously with other industries that's been around a long time, but it's it's really great to see this being translated into the hospitality sector. And I think you've got a really wonderful live case study there I wish you all the best of the success in terms of moving this across the organization. And I look forward to seeing and hearing about the results soon. So thank you very much, Jochen.
Jochen [00:18:58] My pleasure and thank you very much, Jonathan, as well.
Jonathan [00:19:00] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the HoCoSo conversation. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please do share us with your friends and community. Take a look at our previous episodes and look out for our next ones. We look forward to you joining us on this unique exploratory journey.